“I’m incredibly patriotic,” says Ross, “I love our flag.”
He’s pulling a trailer loaded with England flags, otherwise known as the flag of St George, and Union flags, while his friends carry a ladder.
They’re heading out to fly flags from lamp posts in his hometown, Lichfield.
We’re here to spend an evening with them – keen to understand why flags are appearing on streets across England and what people make of it.
As the flags go up, several passing drivers beep and shout their support.
But it isn’t long before a man and woman walk past, visibly annoyed.
“Shameful behaviour,” the woman tells the group.
One of Ross’s group calls back: “Why can’t you be proud?”
“I am proud, but we’re absolutely tripping over from patriotism to an overt display of nationalism,” the man replies.
“There have been many occasions throughout history where the British flag has been adopted by groups that I don’t agree with”.
It’s a tense moment.
Read more: Why have flags started appearing across the UK?
I ask Ross, 27, if the flying of the flags is timed to coincide with concerns about immigration.
“Yes,” he replies. “My personal stance on it is, yes, this is us saying ‘you’re in our country’, right?
“This is what we stand for, you bow to this flag how we do, right, and you shouldn’t be doing illegal things, and for example, raping the women and committing crimes, which we don’t agree with.”
He tells me some of the handful of people he’s with went to the same school as him. But Octavia, the only woman in their group, only met them recently.
“She bumped into us the other day, and now she’s a full-fledged flagger,” Ross says.
Octavia, 27, lifts her jumper to reveal she’s wearing an England flag dress.
“I saw him putting up the flags and I genuinely wondered why,” she says.
“He kind of explained to me, like, we’re protecting people of Britain, we are spreading awareness, that is literally all, and I was really happy to get involved”.
As the next flag is being put up, a man walks past and breaks into song.
“No surrender, no surrender, no surrender to the boats coming over,” he sings.
Ross, filming him, thanks him for his “performance”.
Social Affairs correspondent
Over the course of an evening in Lichfield, we struggled to find anyone who didn’t have an opinion on the flags appearing around the town.
Yet we did find people who were reticent to speak on camera, particularly those opposed to the flags being there.
This is a town where around 93% of residents were born in England, according to the census in 2021.
Unlike many British towns and cities, there is little visible evidence of the mass migration this country has experienced in recent decades.
Octavia, the newest recruit to the group of “flaggers” we met, grew up in Leicester, where just under 58% of people were born in England.
After meeting people opposed to the flags in Lichfield, she told me “they’re wealthy, they live in a nice area, they don’t actually have to go through the struggles that everybody else does”.
She then revealed her opposition to migrant hotels is in part because she was once at risk of homelessness and didn’t get state support.
But from what we saw, it would be wrong to conclude that there are obvious dividing lines in this debate.
On both sides, there were people from a range of different backgrounds, young and old.
Some see a display of pure patriotism. To others, it’s blatant nationalism that has to stop.
But in these uneasy times, the removal of any flags has been seized on as a political act that has sparked anger in communities.
A woman sees it all happen and tells us her husband has written to the council to ask for the flags to be removed.
She’s unhappy about how it may make the town feel for some people.
But she doesn’t want to go on camera – or even have her words recorded.
I ask Ross about his political views.
He says he doesn’t belong to any party, but he tells me he supports Tommy Robinson – and had been with him the previous evening.
He got the flags they’re putting up from him.
Further down the street, we meet Bob. He’s just out for dinner. We get talking about the flags.
“It’s not a racist thing just to be wanting to look after your people,” Ross tells him.
Bob agrees, but is concerned about why flags are going up now.
Tap here to see the full line-up for Sky News’ The Immigration Debate
“It’s become quite extreme,” he says. I ask if he thinks the flag is being used as a racist symbol. “100% yeah, I do,” he says.
But an elderly couple over the road completely disagrees with him. “Of course, we support St George’s flag, we’re British,” the woman says.
Read more on immigration:
What’s driven UK’s astounding immigration levels?
Labour weigh up military barracks to house asylum seekers
How much does the UK rely on legal migration?
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“There’s nothing wrong with showing the English flag,” her husband agrees.
It’s hard to find anyone who doesn’t have a view on the flags appearing around the town. We leave Lichfield with a sense that they’re provoking strong feelings on both sides of a very live national debate.
